I would have thought it more professional considering your position amd commercial trade as a roaster, not to carry comments about the article, or even links to the article itself on your blog.
Surely it’s:
1. Beneath you to do so
2. You have more confidence in your own product than that
3. It’s a cheap shot back…again beneath you
4. Your a professional; act like one!
I hope you read this and decide to not only remove this post, but the whole reference to the daily mail article. Then stop worrying about the papers and go back to what you do best….roasting coffee with pride, care and passion.
I agree Dave were this to be my trade site, but this is my blog a place where I talk about my passion for coffee. Yes some times it crosses over but that happens all the time in life.
Its all about the way the public view coffee that I’m keen to change as part of my professional aims, if someone does something I disagree with I’ll say so.
The problem for years with the press is they only get the chance to put there perspective, the but of a blog is I can give mine, to the limited audiance but one all the same.
Unfortunately in business there is no distinction between the two; trade or personal site.
You are in the coffee business, you can’t wear two hats, because it’s the same head beneath. Your a Professional, I believe you represent the SCAE (hope I got that right). You don’t need to carry this article and it does you no good to do so.
I was always taught to sell on your strengths, not the weaknesses of others. People reading this blog (I don’t mean enthusiats like you and me), who have yet to be convinced of the merits of decent beans, decent machine, decent technique, are not going to be convince by whats wrong with the daily mail article, but by whats right about the things I hope you and I believe.
I still hope you decide not to carry the thing on your blog. Better would be to do a similar (but correct) article yourself and place it on your blog, put the right things in it and don’t knock the Daily Mail article, because you wont need to.
seems kinda scary to advocate a no-comment policy on the personal blog of a well-known roaster and industry envelope-pusher. almost as scary as saying only pedigreed professionals should be able to place good beans in a roaster!
see, calling yourself a professional — or a “roast master” for that matter — means you’re setting yourself up to a higher standard. steve, here, appears to welcome the give and take with amateurs that will help prove his professionalism.
steven, meanwhile, appears to avoid that sort of interaction. why, i wonder?
Dave I agree its wrong to wear two hats, but its also wrong to not have an opinion because I’m in the trade. First and foremost Im an enthusiast who is lucky enough to work in the business he loves. I don’t try and wear any hats but be the person I am, that way I can be honest and open.
My affiliation with the SCAE or any other trade organisation doesnt mean I don’t have a point of view on coffee nor am I not allowed to say when I see something as wrong. In fact it would be more negligent of me not to comment and let it go unnoticed.
I understand your argument, and love the idea of making an alternative article. But alas I won’t reach as many people nor have the same effect as a page in the Daily Mail. But you are right and I like it, I’ll try and action something soon.
I would have thought you would be the first to advocate the joy of home roasting, and skills of some of the home roasters out there. These dedicated aficionados have far higher skills than some industry people (this certainly isn’t aimed at any one in particular and not the comments from the said article, lets make that clear I hold him in great regard as a roaster).
I hope it does some good to air these opinions and have this discussion like we are doing. Without dialogue we become stuck in the same old, same old.
Omg Steve you went to a punctuation mark lesson! Or maybe you’re just really serious about what you say? 🙂
I totally agree that it’s your right to express whatever opinion on your own personal website, even if it has todo with your and others business. Free speech, ain’t it?
What a sad day when being a member of an organisation or the nature of one’s profession are perceived to preclude the individual from voicing an opinion in a public forum environment.
Presumably the same criticism posted here has been levelled at Union Steve for his comments in The Mail? HasBean Steve chose to air his opinion in exactly the same way that Union Steve voiced his own.
Surely no-one has taken this to be anything more than a difference of opinion. I certainly read nothing that would suggest HB Steve had shown any disrespect to Union Roasters. He has stated that he respects Union Steve’s ability.
It is nice that DaveC has HB Steve’s interests in mind but the comments confuse me. Surely, expressing an opinion in an open forum can hardly be considered “beneath” anyone. I do not understand where the perception came from that this has anything to do with the Has Bean product. What is meant by that? What cheap shots? The original article was not a cheap shot at Has Bean, nor were Steve’s comments aimed at anything other than the opinion expressed in the article. That is an exchange of views, a forum debate. The comment about acting as a professional is rather parochial and infers that Steve has acted otherwise. In view of the above comments, it is hard to find any merit and could be considered offensive in its own right.
Cakeboy – Steve was welcome to moderate the reply before he allowed it on the Blog and it did say pending moderation. So he obviously isn’t offended by it, probably because it was not meant to cause offence. I am sure if he was offended, he would have said so. He is someone who I consider to be one of the UKs top roasters, I just think better to sell coffee to people on its and his strengths/passion for the product.
You are also putting words (and meaning) in my posts that wern’t there. I have not mentioned Union Roasters, I have not mentioned any show of disrespect to them.
Lukas, there is free speech and free speech, I agree with you in principle, but all too often is doesn’t seem OK to express whatever opinion on your own website. A lot of free speech is supressed as is the right to reply. Free speech is a matter of perspective.
“Your (sic) a professional, act like one” and “it’s a cheap shot back”, says it all really. The words are there and people can draw their own conclusions.
If you two can’t be nice to each other, then I’m going to make you drink instant until you apologise. And I don’t want to hear your usual excuse of post-ironic self-referential humour.
It would be interesting to know what Steven Macatonia thinks of the way he was quoted. Can anyone here ask him? There are various sentances you could extract the quote ‘I will not supply green beans to anyone … If I’ve selected a Guatemala…’ from that would have a completely different meaning.
On the subject of the article, it’s probably the first I’ve seen since the Sidamo debate that has actually mentioned origins by name, and that has to be a good thing regardless of the tone. I can’t help thinking that the comments about the Lambo, Jura and home roasting have provoked such a sharp reaction that you’ve missed the fact that there’s some good stuff in between.
Dave, if you truly were concerned about whether or not ‘carrying this article’ would be in anyway harmful to Steve’s business, you’d have emailed Steve rather than post condescending insults here. So Dave, what is it you were really trying to achieve behind the veil of ‘in Steve’s best interests”?
As a home roaster yourself, why you are not supporting Steve (who is supporting home roasters) is.. is… beyond words. BTW, aren’t you also trying to gather more home roasters to help fund your new roasting ventures? Or is it completely not-for-profit? No wait, didn’t you try to sell roasts to your community? Hmm… maybe I’ve just answered my original question?
You can’t find better quality and variety than at HasBeans in UK or possibly EMEA. You know it, I know it, he knows it, lots of home roasters know it.
What ever your intention was, I think the only thing you weren’t intending was getting called on.
“Whatever floats your boat”??? THAT’s what you come up with when you can’t back up your statements???
Wow marcy got to laugh here, as I said Steve could have moderated it and not allowed the initial posting on the blog, it was pending him allowing it on. He did allow it on so no problem.
The Greens club is absolutely not for profit.
But yes I hold my hands up at selling some greens to people at their request. Let me see one of my “sales”
4 Kg of green beans (different varieties), 25 mile round trip to deliver them personally…total cost £10….yeah, i’m going to get rich. I think that “sale” made a loss of more than £2. Espressomatic might want to confirm that one.
let me see another “sale”…2kg of different beans free…i sure made a profit on that one.
Oh yet another…….1kg of roasted beans….free
Another 3x250g lots 66p (to cover the cost of the bags).
TMC Southern Coffee meet….cost me over £150 in equipment bench tops, food and drink that I provided….I sure had a commercial agenda at that one….made a killing, ask anyone who attended!
“Sale” of Non slip matting for the top of a coffee machine to a user in Denmark, lemme see what did I make on that one….nothing, wait a bit I posted and packed it free, didn’t charge a penny. I know I must have had an ulterior motive for future sales….because I need to keep those big? profits rolling in.
I must be making money hand over fist, the machine repairs for free, the parts I have given to people for free, the coffee I have given away…I really must open that swiss bank account
Marcy (bean believer) or whatever…..wait until you actually know something about someone, before making some quite witless remarks.
Please can we keep on topic and please be nice to each other this inst a forum its a blog and its for comments about my ramblings. I don’t edit posts and I don’t not let someone comment, but some of you (and I don’t mean one I mean a few) may want to make some edits to there posts.
Anyway, my thoughts. Whilst I have said else where that I have had e-mails from UR to the same effect, I found the comments in the Mail, similar to what I was sent. They seem to have little regard for home roasters which is a real shame because I was told personally that they started in home roasting.
It has been said not to let your business head cross into your personal views, well I feel that is what has happend in tha article.
Coffee is all about passion and draws passionate people to it. Be it Home roasters, machine geeks or whoever. That passion is deep seated and will, in various ways manifest itself. Maybe UR passion, which is undoubtably there, manifested itself in a way that comes across as arrogant, but hey he has passion. Steves passion comes across in a way that encourages us home roasters.
I find articles like this very saddening really because it undermines the hard work of Steve and other, including UR.
Whilst some of the above post seem inflamatory, they do reflact the passion that we have inside, but being human we let it out in all the wrong ways.
I am just trying to be a moderate here for a change, even though i have strog feelings on some of the comments and the way they have been expressed.
Freedom of speech is a great gift, that includes the article. We should be able to respond in a mature and adult manner that reflects the high value we place on freedom of speech, even when we strongly disagree with what may be written. Yes disagree, agree be indifferent, but accept one anothers view for what it is, whether or not you agree.
If the quote from UR was in context then it was rather an ill-thought and condescending comment. On the basis that they work on then no professional chef would produce a recipe for an “amateur” to cook to as it would not turn out as well. Why shouldn’t a home roaster be able to achieve similar quality results? This suggests that no-one who is not already in the trade can learn roasting which is nonsense. Just as there are amatuer cooks who can cook as well as pro chefs then there are home roasters who know thier stuff. Just as being an amatuer musician myself doesn’t mean I can’t play as well as or better than some “pros”
You get all the fun discussion going at your blog!
It is a terrible, condescending article. We didn’t really expect any better. Some comments riled the home roasting community though there were worse things in there on show. Not helpful, not insightful but then neither was the coffee special in the Times the other week. I think the Speciality end of coffee needs to get a lot better at engaging the media before we see better articles in major publications.
i fail to see how that article was even worth reading.
like James said, not helpful, not insightful.
i would hope that we give the people quoted the benefit of the doubt that they do indeed care about home roasting, and suggest the article author switch to decaf.
Interesting comments and I was also astonished to read the comments from the “Roast Master”.
As someone else pointed out, we have only one side of the story. I have worked with UK tabloid “journalists” in the past and it is not unusual for them to make up their own “quotes” out of thin air.
So take the article with a large grain of salt until we hear the other side.
I would have thought it more professional considering your position amd commercial trade as a roaster, not to carry comments about the article, or even links to the article itself on your blog.
Surely it’s:
1. Beneath you to do so
2. You have more confidence in your own product than that
3. It’s a cheap shot back…again beneath you
4. Your a professional; act like one!
I hope you read this and decide to not only remove this post, but the whole reference to the daily mail article. Then stop worrying about the papers and go back to what you do best….roasting coffee with pride, care and passion.
DaveC
I agree Dave were this to be my trade site, but this is my blog a place where I talk about my passion for coffee. Yes some times it crosses over but that happens all the time in life.
Its all about the way the public view coffee that I’m keen to change as part of my professional aims, if someone does something I disagree with I’ll say so.
The problem for years with the press is they only get the chance to put there perspective, the but of a blog is I can give mine, to the limited audiance but one all the same.
Unfortunately in business there is no distinction between the two; trade or personal site.
You are in the coffee business, you can’t wear two hats, because it’s the same head beneath. Your a Professional, I believe you represent the SCAE (hope I got that right). You don’t need to carry this article and it does you no good to do so.
I was always taught to sell on your strengths, not the weaknesses of others. People reading this blog (I don’t mean enthusiats like you and me), who have yet to be convinced of the merits of decent beans, decent machine, decent technique, are not going to be convince by whats wrong with the daily mail article, but by whats right about the things I hope you and I believe.
I still hope you decide not to carry the thing on your blog. Better would be to do a similar (but correct) article yourself and place it on your blog, put the right things in it and don’t knock the Daily Mail article, because you wont need to.
seems kinda scary to advocate a no-comment policy on the personal blog of a well-known roaster and industry envelope-pusher. almost as scary as saying only pedigreed professionals should be able to place good beans in a roaster!
see, calling yourself a professional — or a “roast master” for that matter — means you’re setting yourself up to a higher standard. steve, here, appears to welcome the give and take with amateurs that will help prove his professionalism.
steven, meanwhile, appears to avoid that sort of interaction. why, i wonder?
Thank you Ben, for your kind words.
Dave I agree its wrong to wear two hats, but its also wrong to not have an opinion because I’m in the trade. First and foremost Im an enthusiast who is lucky enough to work in the business he loves. I don’t try and wear any hats but be the person I am, that way I can be honest and open.
My affiliation with the SCAE or any other trade organisation doesnt mean I don’t have a point of view on coffee nor am I not allowed to say when I see something as wrong. In fact it would be more negligent of me not to comment and let it go unnoticed.
I understand your argument, and love the idea of making an alternative article. But alas I won’t reach as many people nor have the same effect as a page in the Daily Mail. But you are right and I like it, I’ll try and action something soon.
I would have thought you would be the first to advocate the joy of home roasting, and skills of some of the home roasters out there. These dedicated aficionados have far higher skills than some industry people (this certainly isn’t aimed at any one in particular and not the comments from the said article, lets make that clear I hold him in great regard as a roaster).
I hope it does some good to air these opinions and have this discussion like we are doing. Without dialogue we become stuck in the same old, same old.
Great comments love it 🙂
Omg Steve you went to a punctuation mark lesson! Or maybe you’re just really serious about what you say? 🙂
I totally agree that it’s your right to express whatever opinion on your own personal website, even if it has todo with your and others business. Free speech, ain’t it?
What a sad day when being a member of an organisation or the nature of one’s profession are perceived to preclude the individual from voicing an opinion in a public forum environment.
Presumably the same criticism posted here has been levelled at Union Steve for his comments in The Mail? HasBean Steve chose to air his opinion in exactly the same way that Union Steve voiced his own.
Surely no-one has taken this to be anything more than a difference of opinion. I certainly read nothing that would suggest HB Steve had shown any disrespect to Union Roasters. He has stated that he respects Union Steve’s ability.
It is nice that DaveC has HB Steve’s interests in mind but the comments confuse me. Surely, expressing an opinion in an open forum can hardly be considered “beneath” anyone. I do not understand where the perception came from that this has anything to do with the Has Bean product. What is meant by that? What cheap shots? The original article was not a cheap shot at Has Bean, nor were Steve’s comments aimed at anything other than the opinion expressed in the article. That is an exchange of views, a forum debate. The comment about acting as a professional is rather parochial and infers that Steve has acted otherwise. In view of the above comments, it is hard to find any merit and could be considered offensive in its own right.
Cakeboy – Steve was welcome to moderate the reply before he allowed it on the Blog and it did say pending moderation. So he obviously isn’t offended by it, probably because it was not meant to cause offence. I am sure if he was offended, he would have said so. He is someone who I consider to be one of the UKs top roasters, I just think better to sell coffee to people on its and his strengths/passion for the product.
You are also putting words (and meaning) in my posts that wern’t there. I have not mentioned Union Roasters, I have not mentioned any show of disrespect to them.
Lukas, there is free speech and free speech, I agree with you in principle, but all too often is doesn’t seem OK to express whatever opinion on your own website. A lot of free speech is supressed as is the right to reply. Free speech is a matter of perspective.
“Your (sic) a professional, act like one” and “it’s a cheap shot back”, says it all really. The words are there and people can draw their own conclusions.
Whatever floats your boat CakeBoy
If you two can’t be nice to each other, then I’m going to make you drink instant until you apologise. And I don’t want to hear your usual excuse of post-ironic self-referential humour.
It would be interesting to know what Steven Macatonia thinks of the way he was quoted. Can anyone here ask him? There are various sentances you could extract the quote ‘I will not supply green beans to anyone … If I’ve selected a Guatemala…’ from that would have a completely different meaning.
On the subject of the article, it’s probably the first I’ve seen since the Sidamo debate that has actually mentioned origins by name, and that has to be a good thing regardless of the tone. I can’t help thinking that the comments about the Lambo, Jura and home roasting have provoked such a sharp reaction that you’ve missed the fact that there’s some good stuff in between.
Dave, if you truly were concerned about whether or not ‘carrying this article’ would be in anyway harmful to Steve’s business, you’d have emailed Steve rather than post condescending insults here. So Dave, what is it you were really trying to achieve behind the veil of ‘in Steve’s best interests”?
As a home roaster yourself, why you are not supporting Steve (who is supporting home roasters) is.. is… beyond words. BTW, aren’t you also trying to gather more home roasters to help fund your new roasting ventures? Or is it completely not-for-profit? No wait, didn’t you try to sell roasts to your community? Hmm… maybe I’ve just answered my original question?
You can’t find better quality and variety than at HasBeans in UK or possibly EMEA. You know it, I know it, he knows it, lots of home roasters know it.
What ever your intention was, I think the only thing you weren’t intending was getting called on.
“Whatever floats your boat”??? THAT’s what you come up with when you can’t back up your statements???
Wow marcy got to laugh here, as I said Steve could have moderated it and not allowed the initial posting on the blog, it was pending him allowing it on. He did allow it on so no problem.
The Greens club is absolutely not for profit.
But yes I hold my hands up at selling some greens to people at their request. Let me see one of my “sales”
4 Kg of green beans (different varieties), 25 mile round trip to deliver them personally…total cost £10….yeah, i’m going to get rich. I think that “sale” made a loss of more than £2. Espressomatic might want to confirm that one.
let me see another “sale”…2kg of different beans free…i sure made a profit on that one.
Oh yet another…….1kg of roasted beans….free
Another 3x250g lots 66p (to cover the cost of the bags).
TMC Southern Coffee meet….cost me over £150 in equipment bench tops, food and drink that I provided….I sure had a commercial agenda at that one….made a killing, ask anyone who attended!
“Sale” of Non slip matting for the top of a coffee machine to a user in Denmark, lemme see what did I make on that one….nothing, wait a bit I posted and packed it free, didn’t charge a penny. I know I must have had an ulterior motive for future sales….because I need to keep those big? profits rolling in.
I must be making money hand over fist, the machine repairs for free, the parts I have given to people for free, the coffee I have given away…I really must open that swiss bank account
Marcy (bean believer) or whatever…..wait until you actually know something about someone, before making some quite witless remarks.
Please can we keep on topic and please be nice to each other this inst a forum its a blog and its for comments about my ramblings. I don’t edit posts and I don’t not let someone comment, but some of you (and I don’t mean one I mean a few) may want to make some edits to there posts.
Thanks
Steve
And keep me out of it, thankyou.
Anyway, my thoughts. Whilst I have said else where that I have had e-mails from UR to the same effect, I found the comments in the Mail, similar to what I was sent. They seem to have little regard for home roasters which is a real shame because I was told personally that they started in home roasting.
It has been said not to let your business head cross into your personal views, well I feel that is what has happend in tha article.
Coffee is all about passion and draws passionate people to it. Be it Home roasters, machine geeks or whoever. That passion is deep seated and will, in various ways manifest itself. Maybe UR passion, which is undoubtably there, manifested itself in a way that comes across as arrogant, but hey he has passion. Steves passion comes across in a way that encourages us home roasters.
I find articles like this very saddening really because it undermines the hard work of Steve and other, including UR.
Whilst some of the above post seem inflamatory, they do reflact the passion that we have inside, but being human we let it out in all the wrong ways.
I am just trying to be a moderate here for a change, even though i have strog feelings on some of the comments and the way they have been expressed.
Freedom of speech is a great gift, that includes the article. We should be able to respond in a mature and adult manner that reflects the high value we place on freedom of speech, even when we strongly disagree with what may be written. Yes disagree, agree be indifferent, but accept one anothers view for what it is, whether or not you agree.
Dimplomattic 🙂
Espressomatic Spot on, have an opinion but respect others I like it
Popping up in to the warzone here!
If the quote from UR was in context then it was rather an ill-thought and condescending comment. On the basis that they work on then no professional chef would produce a recipe for an “amateur” to cook to as it would not turn out as well. Why shouldn’t a home roaster be able to achieve similar quality results? This suggests that no-one who is not already in the trade can learn roasting which is nonsense. Just as there are amatuer cooks who can cook as well as pro chefs then there are home roasters who know thier stuff. Just as being an amatuer musician myself doesn’t mean I can’t play as well as or better than some “pros”
You get all the fun discussion going at your blog!
It is a terrible, condescending article. We didn’t really expect any better. Some comments riled the home roasting community though there were worse things in there on show. Not helpful, not insightful but then neither was the coffee special in the Times the other week. I think the Speciality end of coffee needs to get a lot better at engaging the media before we see better articles in major publications.
So dumping a tonne of coffee beans in the foyer of the Mail is a bad idea???
i fail to see how that article was even worth reading.
like James said, not helpful, not insightful.
i would hope that we give the people quoted the benefit of the doubt that they do indeed care about home roasting, and suggest the article author switch to decaf.
sheesh.
Interesting comments and I was also astonished to read the comments from the “Roast Master”.
As someone else pointed out, we have only one side of the story. I have worked with UK tabloid “journalists” in the past and it is not unusual for them to make up their own “quotes” out of thin air.
So take the article with a large grain of salt until we hear the other side.